Primavera Sound - Foros

Hello all, following there´s what Gabi Ruiz, one of the directors of the festival, posted talking about the solutions and the improvements we want to do for next year, and also asking the forum members to say what you think:

"After several days reading your conclusions about the 2011 edition I would like to open this thread and use it to reflect on what the 2012 edition should be like in order to improve whatever we can.
There are some things that go without saying and where what needs to be done is obvious:

- Bars: I have already started having meetings with the people in charge of setting up the bars in order to change their organisation. Basically we have asked them to find a new company to supply all the personnel putting emphasis on the preparation of the managers of each bar. These changes should have the desired effect.

- System of payment. We will implant a mixed system. We will improve the card system but it will also be possible to pay in cash.

- Toilets. Yesterday I was speaking to the production manager who once again told me that the number of toilets was more than enough but that they were going to carefully study their location. They have a report from the cleaning company that tells us which ones were the most used and which were hardly used at all. With this information we will be able to redistribute them.

- Sound. I have asked for more volume on the two main stages but as always we will be in the hands of the specific sound systems of the bands.

- Security. We are going to stop working with one of the companies in charge of security on the site.

- Llevant stage. We have to improve the access by asking the company that manages the Forum to tarmac another access to that stage. There is more than enough space; the problem is getting the layout right. We have also thought that we should change the position of the bars to encourage the spectators not to stay at the entrance while there is an empty space to the left of the stage. Maybe we should put a continuous programme on that stage to encourage people to stay there.

- Pitchfork Stage. Study the problems of feedback with the San Miguel Stage. Alternating the programme with this stage if necessary.
- Auditori. Don’t touch anything that is already good.

I am very clear on all these points and they are all relatively easy to solve. At least the problem is identified and we know how to proceed.

Right and this is why I have opened this thread. I would like to reflect on the capacity of the festival.
The average this year has been 40,000 people per day (33,000 full festival tickets and 7000 tickets per day).
I think this is a number of people we can deal without any problems. We just need another year with the same layout to solve the problems that have arisen this year. I really think that movement inside the festival this year was much better than in 2010. We also have to take into consideration that PS is an outdoor festival that takes place on a site that was not built for this type of use. What I mean to say is, that we cannot expect to see Neil Young from three meters away with the best of sound systems and without people brushing against us. We are not in a concert hall. However, good open-air concerts on big stages have a magic that makes them special.
So, at this stage I have read a lot of people asking us to limit the capacity. I have already said that there is no way that we will increase the 40,000 per day. Yes, we could reduce this number. And this is where I want to read your opinions. If we reduced the capacity to 35,000 people per day…. would you be willing to pay the corresponding rise in cost? Let’s not kid ourselves; PS is a cheap festival that has trouble making ends meet. From the 6.1-million budget (which could eventually go up to 6.3 m) only 5% is covered by public grants (some of which are returnable depending on objectives) and a 15% comes from sponsors. The rest, an 85% is covered by the price of the tickets and the takings at the bars (food and merchandising takings are practically negligible).
The majority of the tickets are sold before the press conference at a reduced price and many of them include the Pclub ticket that is a loss-making festival. There are other activities that do not generate any income like the concerts in the park and others that do not have direct profitability like the opening and closing parties in the Poble Espanyol and the concerts at the Apolo and other venues. None of this can be changed, for these very reasons PS sets itself apart from the others. Its identity marks are the number of stages, the quantity and quality of the bands, the Auditori and the extras that mean that the festival is with you all year round.
Having said all of this, we can divide the quantity that we would lose if we limited the capacity and can add this amount to each ticket. Obviously the cheapest ticket would notice this increase the most whilst those who have always paid more would barely notice the difference in price. We have to work it all out properly but perhaps this would mean that those who paid 100 euro this year would pay 125 and those who paid 180 would pay 185.

What do you think? It is the only way that I can see to reduce the capacity and to maintain the characteristics of the festival. Anyway, I have already told you that I think that we are capable of working with the current capacity to make PS a comfortable festival. But, I give you the option to reduce the capacity as many of you have asked us to do so.

Let’s keep it polite please. I will give you time to talk about it amongst yourselves, I do not want to influence your opinions"

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Primavera Sound 2012

First I would like to say that I think Primaverasound is for me the festival with the best line up in Europe and that is the only reason why I get on an airplane and fly out to Barcelona. It's all about the music for me and that music was once again excellent this year.

Organisation wise however, this year's festival must have been a nightmare for the organisers and I admire their courage and determination to make it better next year. I don't think there are many festivals that ask for opinions and experiences from their punters to improve their experiences in the future. Thanks for that.

Now for the capacity issue that you raise. I must admit that I only attended last year and this year so this is coming from someone who has never experienced the "early years".
Last year (my first) I thought it was a big festival but not too big at all. Lots of stages, lots of circulation between stages but you could always move and go where you wanted to go in a fairly quick way. Only when the headliners (Pixies, Pavement and Pet Shop Boys) were playing on the San Miguel stage it was hard to move around in that area (especially where the bar and whisky truck were situated).
This year I initially thought there were fewer people on the festival site because when the headliners on the San Miguel stage were playing it was still easy to walk around from left to right behind the sound tower and in front of the whisky truck).

The introduction of the Llevant stage and opening up the righthand side of the San Miguel stage had everything to do with that feeling.
But still I was a bit surprised to read so many complaints about the crowdedness of the festival.

PS is by no means a cheap festival if only because of the flight and ho(s)tel beds you have to pay for so my first concern is not to change the prices too much. I believe you are going to cap the audience at 40000 no matter what so for me that is ok. I really don't think my listening experience will improve that much because there are 5000 people less.
For people who are flying in, this is a 500 € weekend no matter what so an increase in the price would not be advisable. Maybe it's a bit different for the locals I don't know?
But who am I kidding? If the price would go up by 5 or 10 € of course I would pay up although I wouldn't want to pay 200€ for my ticket; I think that would be my psychological limit.


Having said that: I would like to comment on a few of the things you want to improve next year.

Bars: you say you are going to find a different company to staff the bars. I have a different proposition: why not work with volunteers? Here in Belgium I don't think there is one festival that works with paid bar staff. Every single bartender is a volunteer on every festival, even the biggest ones like Rock Werchter or Pukkelpop. These volunteers tend to be much more motivated and even proud to be working on a festival like that.
As for the waiting times at the bars: the main problem is not the paying method but the setup of the bar. The way they do it now is completely wrong to serve large amounts of people in a short time span. I noticed it last year and this year it was the same: the bartender takes your order AND makes the drinks but this should be done by 2 different persons: 1 is constantly pouring drinks or drafting beers and the other one only has to hand them over to the client. This combined with a ticket system makes it possible to have almost no waiting time even when it's busy.
Apparently next year there will be the possibility to pay with either cash or PScard. That is a fine but you should install as many Ipads as possible in the bars, preferably every bartender has their own because otherwise that will cause delays again.

Toilets: I never had to walk very far to find an available urinal but it's a festival so even if you install 40000 toilets people will still go against the nearest fence.

Llevant stage: I didn't like this stage simply because it was too far away from the other stages. I know it has served its purpose to get more circulation going but the walk from there to the Pitchfork stage was just too far.

I would like to end with complimenting you on how you handled the Sufjan concerts in the Auditorium. You knew beforehand that demand would far outreach supply for tickets so you implemented a lottery system. I was unlucky and didn't get tickets but you were wise enough to withhold a couple of hundred tickets for people lining up at the auditorium so everyone was happy in the end. Thanks for that.

good luck with PS12: I'll be there again!

no need to explain my opinion when romancandle wrote exactly what I was trying to post.
thank you

I don't know how many others experienced this issue, but my main and only real complaint really was that I loaded up my entrance card with 50euro, only to find out that 80% of the bars/venders only took cash.
I get that it's the first year that the system's in use, but it was a real nightmare, and resulted in an hour long wait in line to clear the card and get a refund. I imagine it'll be better next year, but just putting that out there!

As for the price increase, I felt like the festival way a little too crowded this year. Last year was a better vibe, crowd wise. So if a 5 buck bump meant crowd control, I'd be in. But I'm with RomanCandle on wanting to keep it below 200.

Ticking off the months already!

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www.thatswiiild.blogspot.com

Hello!
The most unpleasant thing at the festival is when people with beer go into crowd to the stage, dancing and jumping there, thus pouring beer on other people.
It would be ideal, if beer were authorized to be drunk only in food court zones, instead of near the stages
Thus the general gathering in bars won't decrease, but on the contrary

That's like a fundamental right at festivals here in Spain! I mean, not pouring beer over people... but drinking it while seeing a band playing.

Agree with many of your suggested improvements.

One of the key things that needs addressing is the Llevant stage- it has to have a continuous line-up, as this year it was a pain to walk there, watch a band, then have to leave with the masses as there was no bands on for an hour or longer. Have you considered relocating stage itself so it's facing the current entrance, which would encourage the crowd to disperse more evenly and have the bars down the sides (i.e. keep bar that was at back and have another one roughly where stage was this year). Only problem I see with this could be noise pollution to other stages.

Glad to see you intend to improve bars and toilets, one of the main weaknesses over the years at Primavera has always been the food - generally expensive and not very good quality (even worse than UK festivals) I know the food vendors are independent, but surely you can have some say in what value for money they have to provide your punters to secure a pitch ?

It's a wonderful festival and I'll be back next year - are the early bird tickets going on sale in July like last year?

People that stand around taking throughout an artist's set should be expelled from the venue.

CAPACITY: I would rather pay 5-10 Euros more and have fewer people. Coming in by plane, paying an appartment and eating on the ground is anyway a holiday's budget. It was still okay most of the times since the area is large, but for Some acts it felt too crowded some times.

LLEVANT STAGE: Honestly - I really disliked the stage, it was huge and so "normal" compared to the other rather extraordinary stages (Ray Ban!, ATP!) and made me feel like being on a usual european megafestival. I skipped beloved bands due to the rather uncomfortable setting and of course the long way and time it takes to be reached. I'd even rather not have it and have fever bands on the bill, but since this would not make sense it would be appreciated if it'll be placed a diffrent way + probably a sort of (grand)stand being built so people can rest and watch. But in fact this is crying on a very high level since Primavera offers such tempting alternative stages

STAFF: I liked the drinks and beer, security seemed decent - only the information point (f.e. Auditorium, missed John Cale due to some wrong ticket-info) could have needed a "supervisor" for really (not so?!) tricky questions. The card/drink situation was of course something that was too far out of proportion to be judged here. The idea of offering both ways (cash & cards) from the beginning on next year sounds reasonable for all parties & technologies involved!

FOOD: I found the food quality still rather poor and would love to see it upgraded. Not the prices though, of course :-/

TOILETS: It felt like there were not enough of them, especially on the left side (bushes) of ATP and some other places (Pitchfork!). A re-arranging would be appreciated.

Will tell more if it comes up in my mind, I was totally happy about the festival and will come back

I'd pretty much agree with what romancandle said too. I thought the crowd levels were about right on balance, with access between stages much improved on previous years. I didn't spend too much time at the Levant stage myself, but I do think it's existence helped spread the crowd more, and it really wasn't that far to go, was it? Personally I wouldn't want to go to Glastonbury these days, but I'm told it can take more than an hour to get between some stages there now! Perhaps a few small tweaks so far as bar positions go is worth looking at to help avoid crowd build ups near entrance points? Great to have the site of the Pitchfork stage back this year too.

My overall comfort was probably much helped by the fact I bought a VIP ticket for the first time this year mind. When do they go on sale for 2012? Are there dates set for next year yet? Personally I'm still suffering withdrawal symptons, and will look forward to next year's every bit as much I'm sure

I read somewhere they were going to be on sale in about a week or so? not sure though.

CAPACITY: 40.000 sounds impressive, but it still felt comfortable.

LLEVANT: Quite a walk but probably -as wakestock said before- its existence helped spread the crowd more.
I really got used to Llevant during the festival; the stage itself is not spectacular but the location and view from there are pretty special. The sound was good, too.

SOUND-CLASHES: San Miguel vs. Pitchfork was a massive problem; they shhould not be used at the same time. A relocation of the Pitchfork-stage would be another option, but i liked the new (old) location.

ROMANCANDLE: i feel different about llevant, but...great post!

2012: i'll be back!

I think it would be best if Llevant ran normally all day long (maybe not during a headliner), and the San Miguel stage alternated with the Ray-Ban and Pitchfork.

It was my first time at PS and I had a great great time. I`d like to congratulate everyone on the general smooth running of the festival especially as for the most part I felt safe and I have to say I didn`t realise that there could have been around 40000 on site at anyone time. However, there are a couple of things that I felt could be improved.

At particular times the walk ways on the steps of the ATP stage were crowded as people took to sitting on them. I like the fact there are steps to sit on - and want this maintained - but if this is to be the case then stewards need to stop people hovering or sitting in the walkways. During Low I was worried about some people's safety and people were getting very very annoyed as they tried to make there way along steps to get access to and leave the stage.

My other big frustration was with drinks. Could you please at least allow or encourage some other vendors to sell bottled water. On particularly hot days, especially on the first day when a lot of the bars were out of action, it was VERY difficult to get any kind of drink.

My biggest gripe was the so called "card payment for drinks" system. Perhaps I have missed the explanation for this somewhere, but I just don`t really understand the benefit that a top up card gives to this festival. Economies have spent hundreds of years developing and the best system we have come up with for the exchange of goods is money (I`m ignoring credit and debit cards here as the system offer at PS had little resemblance). Stick with that, it's simple, you don`t have to queue twice or wait on a website that is prone to crash. Or rely on technology that is going to crash when placed in a strained festival situation. The organiser also doesn`t have to shell out a load of cash on said system.

Anyway. I had loads of fun this year. Keep up the good work.

Third time for me at primavera and enjoyed it, only thing that I would change is to give ATP aa bigger stage as like an earlier poster has mentioned, it got seriously crowded during low's set, also I wasnt able to find the location of the afternoon park concerts, there were quite a few of us wandering around aimlessy looking for i, it would have been great if the website or programme had the exact location of it displayed.
I don't see any reason to cut the capacity as the site coped very well overall, nowhere near the overcrowding I experienced during the pixies show last year.
those early bird tickets are still a bargain at €125 considering how expensive festivals are for those of us living in Ireland or the U.K.
Thanks for running such a great festival and I hope to be able to enjoy the Jack daniels truck again next year!.